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Talk:Paradox Space
Coverage Okay so about the third thought I had after this was revealed was: This is going to be a bitch to cover. So here's a few things to consider. 1. It will probably be big, so there will be lots of content that needs to be covered. 2. It might be complicated to tell apart the "previously unseen", the "doomed time line what if's", and the "hypothetical stories that have nothing to do with canon". 3. Do we add in the new information on the characters in the character articles? Glob knows these are crowded enough as it is. 4. This technically isn't a mspaint-adventure. So we can be pretty liberal in how we cover it, even going so far as to separate the content in a separate wiki...but that would probably bring it's own set of problems. In any case I think we need to have some way to indicate if a piece of information came from the original story or from the paradox space comics.- 08:27, April 14, 2014 (UTC) :Well any hypothetical "what if?" stories would probably differ quiet noticeably from the canon, because otherwise what is the point? I guess the issue might be trying to distinguish some of them from doomed timelines, because a story can be clear whether it is hypothetical or doomed timeline, but it can also be ambiguous, so I guess it is sort of a matter of a case by case judgement, unless PXS itself makes the distinction clear by categorising stories. :As for sourcing what information came from where, well one of our many community goals it to add more source links, if we keep up on this goal when it comes to adding new info from PXS than we shouldn't need to indicate the source of the info in the text (for the most part). - The Light6 (talk) 11:39, April 14, 2014 (UTC) ::Splitting it into a separate wiki could be a good idea, it would give us more room to write story summaries in-depth. 00:13, April 15, 2014 (UTC) :::I think we should cover it here. This wiki already covers Jailbreak, Bard Quest and Problem Sleuth, and with an update schedule of one page per weekday, it'll take a year to catch up with Act 1's pagecount and two more years to catch up with Act 2, and I don't think we need to worry about too many multi-page pesterlogs. The Buffyverse wiki covers Buffy, Angel and the comics, the Bleach wiki covers the manga, the parts of the anime based on the anime, the filler arc parts of the anime and the omake segments of uncertain canon status and Wookiepedia covers the entire Star Wars franchise and its half-dozen or so canon tiers, and they've all found ways of keeping things clear and organized (usually with separate sections for various spinoffs or story arcs). -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:40, April 15, 2014 (UTC) ::::On that topic, I've always thought Bulbapedia was a phenomenal and exemplary wiki. That being said, alright. Let's cover it here. Do we need a PXS category? Doomed timelines / canon / fanon subcategories? And more currently pertinent, do any of these stories deserve individual pages yet, or should we just summarize them on the PXS page? 23:43, April 15, 2014 (UTC) :::::Since these stories are all going to be pretty short (if the first two are any indication), I don't think individual pages will be needed. Putting the summaries on the main PXS page should be fine for now, though they may later need to be relocated to new pages if they end up taking up too much space. 00:31, April 16, 2014 (UTC) ::::::Another wiki example to add to the list of wiki examples is the Doctor Who Wiki, it covers Doctor Who, Sarah Jane Adventures (+ K9 and Company), Torchwood, and K9, and all of those things in all their different media formats from the TV shows, to the books, novels, comics, audio plays, actual stage plays, licensed parodies, and possibly more. Of course we cannot stop others from making a PXS wiki if they want, but if they do, and it ends up being a failure, like that independent Homestuck Wiki, we can do to it what we did to the Homestuck Wiki. ::::::That being said, Hussie's blog post did indicate that most if not all the PXS stories would be fairly short, most of them can easily be covered here. That being said, if any story in the future is long or complex enough to warrant it, it can have it's own page. But certainly the first two stories do not warrant it. :::::::I am in all favor of covering this on this Wiki, and agree with the points made by Lp. We can summarize the short stories on this page, and if there actually ends up being a long, in depth story on Paradox Space we can create a separate page for it. I think that sourcing Paradox Space as canon material should be done sparingly unless it's stated outright that Hussie contributed to the writing of the comic. Really, Paradox Space is just an officially endorsed place for talented people to post fan comics. Rabbeseking (talk) 04:42, April 17, 2014 (UTC) Canonicity I'm fairly certain that is a word, at least. Anyway, in the latest PXS news update (hey we should make a PXS link template) Hussie made a very helpful coverall statement for how canon these stories are: "For any given story, it is either "Definitely Not Canon" or "Possibly Canon". But no story should ever be regarded as "Definitely Canon", unless Homestuck itself confirms those events retroactively in some manner." So there we have it. 23:47, April 16, 2014 (UTC) :I think a Paradox Space link template would be great to make! (lol off topic kind of) Just my two cents. Ylimegirl (talk) 04:50, April 17, 2014 (UTC) ::I just tried to for about half an hour, but I have to admit at some point that I have zero experience making any templates before, even a simple link template, and that is the point I have reached. Code is here, and yes I realize it won't work unless the code is in the same-named template page, but I tried it and it wasn't sufficient yet, so I decided not to uselessly clog up template namespace. 05:56, April 17, 2014 (UTC) :::I'm gonna try my hand at it, probably after school. Ylimegirl (talk) 15:05, April 17, 2014 (UTC) :::EDIT: Here have a shit edit of the MSPA template real quick Ylimegirl (talk) 15:14, April 17, 2014 (UTC) PXS vs. PxS Minor thing but might as well jump on it in the early stages, which one should we use? I know people have sort of disagreed on it, but as far as I can tell, both are equally right (officially, maybe). I know people have pointed to the smaller "x" in the icon as evidence it is supposed to be PxS, but that feels more like stylisation. , however (Hussie ironically hasn't used either, instead using PS). I considered changing the intro to say "abbreviated as PXS and PxS" but I felt that seem odd to readers, so I will hold off to see what everyone else thinks. I of course prefer PXS, and Rachel as editor-in-chief of PXS might be a more reliable source on what the "correct" one is (if there is a correct one that is). - The Light6 (talk) 05:20, April 28, 2014 (UTC) :It's hard to tell, since x just looks like a smaller capital X. I would recommend PXS, given that. On the other hand, P'arado'x S'pace so... ' 05:47, April 28, 2014 (UTC) ::We already have a P'roblem '''S'leuth though...Rabbeseking (talk) 02:38, April 29, 2014 (UTC) :::Nobody was ever arguing to abbreviate this as PS. Ever. I bolded the lowercase x for a reason. ''' 05:37, April 29, 2014 (UTC) ::::Didn't even see that x. Rabbeseking (talk) 23:55, April 29, 2014 (UTC) Future management Considering that paradox space updates daily and each story so far has been around 3-6 pages it wont be long before this article gets pretty big. What do you guys think would be the best way to manage this? The2ndplayer (talk) 20:42, May 7, 2014 (UTC) :I think one possibility is to make the comic listings into a table like the ones on this page, with it having parameters of "name", "starting date", and "page length". We'd have to remove the summary for each story, but that would make the article REALLY long if we did a summary for every one anyway, so... Ylimegirl (talk) 01:36, May 8, 2014 (UTC) :::wanted to throw an idea out here, we could put the summaries in some type of collapsible boxes, not sure how to do it, but I've seen it done elsewhere. :::Whohoohuwhu (talk) 13:35, May 8, 2014 (UTC) ::::I had considered collapsible boxes myself, but we shouldn't move to that until the size becomes objectionable. ::::I think the long term solution will be something similar to Problem Sleuth s volume pages and Homestuck s act pages. As for how they might be grouped, considering the only current division is by story, I think grouping them by year might do well, but with the current year kept on the main PXS page, at least for this year to see how that idea might fair out. Alternatively if they are ever published we can use that as the page division like we did with Problem Sleuth. - The Light6 (talk) 14:09, May 8, 2014 (UTC) ::::I was meaning to post this a couple of hours ago but whatever, Hussie confirmed in that PXS is most likely going to be published: "So my intention is to work on figuring that out, to make it sustainable. By optimizing ads, printing books, etc." ::::So yes, grouping them by volume is currently a viable future option as I previously suggested, and it is a suggestion I much prefer to grouping by year. Published volumes may also have bonus content that may be difficult to categorise in relation to the online content, going by volume allows an easy method of grouping. - The Light6 (talk) 14:03, May 12, 2014 (UTC) ::::As per the issue of separating the pages by volume when there are no volumes by which to separate by, a problem no one else has raised except myself; for Problem Sleuth: Volume 5 prior to it being released it was named "Problem Sleuth: Unknown Volume(s)" so we could use "Paradox Space: Unknown Volume(s)" should we choose to split the page. Also as per other pages where the page name is basically a placeholder in lieu of an official name I threw together a banner we could use on the page, I also made some changes to it to attempt to fix some issues I've had with the ones we've had and still have. - The Light6 (talk) 05:00, May 17, 2014 (UTC) :::::did anyone elses head hit meet their desk when they saw the new alt text on page 2 of deadline (I very much resembled the dersites in the last panel). Whohoohuwhu (talk) 10:46, May 20, 2014 (UTC) Character pages continued from Talk:List of Paradox Space characters#Does this really need to be its own page? Long-term, here's how I think we should handle it: *Major characters should get their own articles listing all their appearances and covering their roles in various Paradox Space stories. ("John Egbert (Paradox Space)", "Vriska Serket (Paradox Space)", "Roxy Lalonde (Paradox Space)", "Jack Noir (Paradox Space)" etc.) *Minor one-shot characters could either continue to be listed on list of Paradox Space characters, or get forked off into a separate article like "list of minor Paradox Space characters" (which could be further subdivided by volume or year or species or whatever if it gets too big). *Eventually, once we've got a navbox and character info has been shuffled off onto other pages, the main list of Paradox Space characters page might becomes a sort of hub / portal / index / overview page, sort of like the Homestuck Kids, troll, Guardian and ancestor pages. *I'm not sure how to handle secondary characters. Maybe we could create pages covering groups of characters ("Guardians (Paradox Space)", "Carapacians (Paradox Space)", "The Felt (Paradox Space)" etc.). -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 08:44, May 15, 2014 (UTC) :I like the idea of setting up paradox space character pages, but then there rises a question of linking, we should certainly be linking to the source, so do these pages get linked at all aside from on the hub? I'm not sure how we would do it is all Whohoohuwhu (talk) 00:53, May 16, 2014 (UTC) ::I personally think that character pages for the characters' appearances in Paradox Space is really unneeded. The characters already have pages that describe them, any such pages would simply be recapping the Paradox Space stories again, which is what we are already doing on this page. So no, I cannot support that. - The Light6 (talk) 04:56, May 16, 2014 (UTC) :::Long-term, here's what I think our priorities should be regarding organization of Paradox Space related info: :::*Making sure that casual readers can easily look up all the Paradox Space stories with a specific character like Roxy or Karkat or Becquerel or Snowman, just like they're able to quickly look up pesterlogs from Homestuck right now. :::*Making sure that casual readers can easily look up one-shot characters like the Critical Whale and the monkeys and background cameos. :::*Making sure that, when casual readers are looking up information on a subject which isn't really explored in the Homestuck canon (but is explored in Paradox Space), those readers can easily find out which Paradox Space stories explore the subject. :::*Making sure that casual readers don't confuse non-canon info from Paradox Space with canon info from Homestuck. :::-- Gordon Ecker (talk) 09:41, May 16, 2014 (UTC) ::::Paradox Space itself has started to address this (well mostly the first point) itself with its new tag system. Of course it is limited in that we need to rely on the PXS team to tag anything and everything, and it seems cameos are sort of given the backseat in the tags, although background characters/cameos do seem to gain tags based on fan reactions (hence the Critical Wh8le and Troll Slavve #3 tags). - The Light6 (talk) 05:00, May 17, 2014 (UTC) Linking to events in homestuck the latest reminds me of the explosion in the B2 session which made the kids from that session god tier, shouldn't comics where the point they were derived from in the cannon be linked? thus far 3 of the comics seem to reference a specific point of time in the cannon. I think that a note should be made somewhere in the summery, or that it could be another section on the page.Whohoohuwhu (talk) 10:31, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :Maybe we could link to link to the summary at Homestuck: Act 6 Act 5#Act 6 Act 5 Act 1 x2, or insert an anchor target into the page so we can have a more precise target (according to Wikipedia:Help:Section, you can do that by adding '). -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:56, May 20, 2014 (UTC) ::I created a target at Homestuck: Act 6 Act 5#7722. This seems like a good option for citing stuff which spawns several pages. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 11:04, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :::We actually have a template for that. Also you anchored the wrong section, the moons being blown up was the next link point. - The Light6 (talk) 12:10, May 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::Okay, thanks. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:24, May 21, 2014 (UTC) Is this note worthy A good day for GCat page 1 is the first page to have no tags post-tag update. The2ndplayer (talk) 16:58, May 22, 2014 (UTC) :I imagine that was an oversight on the part of the staff, I bet they'll add tags later. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 21:55, May 22, 2014 (UTC) Jane's room On the second page of A good day for Gcat, when Jane is walking into her room, there's a picture of a Beagle laying next to a swivel chair on the wall over a corner of her Problem Sleuth poster that never appeared before. What is the significance? 03:09, May 26, 2014 (UTC) :There is no significance, it is just an extraneous detail. In any case if it were to be significant we could not answer why, only the artist could answer that. - The Light6 (talk) 03:25, May 26, 2014 (UTC) ::Actually, softowl confirmed that it is Tauhid's dog, Barkley. Unless she meant one of the dead dogs in the pile. ''' 04:47, May 26, 2014 (UTC) Noncredit letterer I keep seeing the name J.N. Wiedle show up, I'm wondering where to confirm that he's lettered a comic because it says nothing of his specific contributions on PXS I can find, only that he is a letterer. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 04:27, May 26, 2014 (UTC) :He is the letterer for the website, that's the point. 04:45, May 26, 2014 (UTC) ::alright, I was confused because his name was credited here for some of the works, but not others, but now I know what's up. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 04:53, May 26, 2014 (UTC) :::His individual story credits can be found - The Light6 (talk) 05:00, May 26, 2014 (UTC) ::::From the contibutor panel section at the bottom of the site: ::::"J.N. Wiedle is a writer and cartoonist based in Brooklyn, NY. They spend their days drawing skeletons and comics involving skeletons. When they aren't doing that, they're PROBABLY drawing Crowbar. (You know, that guy from the part of Homestuck everybody skipped.) Also Paradox Space's Letterer." ::::-- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:06, May 26, 2014 (UTC) :::::Whoops, apparently they prefer gender neutral pronouns. Come to think of it, I'm not sure where I was assuming male from in the first place. 07:09, May 26, 2014 (UTC) ::::::the article calls them a guy... that could have something to do with it? idk, something about the name made me thing they were a guy before I saw that, it's strange Whohoohuwhu (talk) 10:20, May 26, 2014 (UTC) :::::::Actually, "that guy from the part of Homestuck everybody skipped" is referring to Crowbar from the Midnight Crew Intermission, JN's favourite member of the Felt. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:04, May 29, 2014 (UTC) Fetch Quest reference I believe the title and premise of the newest Paradox Space story is a reference to the common quest in games where you must "fetch" something for various charachters. Do the rest of you agree? The2ndplayer (talk) 16:06, June 10, 2014 (UTC) :Well yeah, it's a relatively common story theme. Past that, I don't see what you're getting at. It's not a specific reference, so I personally don't consider it worth mentioning. 17:32, June 10, 2014 (UTC) ::While its not a specific reference its still a reference. If you don't think its note worthy I won't put it up but I do think its worth a brief mention. The2ndplayer (talk) 22:14, June 10, 2014 (UTC) :::I'm still inviting third opinions though, as always. 04:12, June 11, 2014 (UTC) ::::I'm in favour of a brief mention, since the obvious gaming reference might be less obvious to people who don't play a lot of RPGs or adventure games. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:23, June 11, 2014 (UTC) :::::I agree with Aepokk Venset on this one it's been on shows and in stories as well as in games I doubt many people are unfamiliar with the formula Whohoohuwhu (talk) 07:29, June 11, 2014 (UTC)